傅贺按：他叫Simon Rayner，生于英国，在美国做过科研，开过公司，现在武汉病毒所做研究员（更具体介绍可以看文末附的简历）。当我们努力奋斗走出国门走向世界的时候，有这样一个国际友人费尽心思的来到中国，他有些怎么样的经历和想法，他又是如何看待英、美、中三国的科研及文化差异（如果真有的话）的呢？奉上前段时间和他的采访稿，愿对大家有所启发。

从物理到生物

From your CV, we noticed that you learned Physics at the very beginning, so how did you change you major to biology?

看了您的简历，我们注意到您一开始学的是物理，后来是怎么转到生物上来的呢？

It was really by chance. I was working at Texas (as a Postdoc I think). One day I was helping somebody who had a computer problem and it happened he had an advertisement for an opening at the Genome center at the university of Texas southwestern medical center. In America, in the early 1990s, the American government decided to set up several genome centers to begin sequencing the human genomes, and one of those centers was in Dallas. They needed a physicist to work on data analysis and on robotics. Also, my older sister is a biologist, she was studying biology for her PhD. And I begun to read biology to try understand what she was doing. So I called them up and went an interview, and was offered a job and started two weeks later.

那纯粹是个意外。当时我在德克萨斯州工作（我想应该是做博后那会儿）。一天我在帮一个朋友解决电脑问题，他那儿碰巧有个招聘广告，是德克萨斯州西南医学中心的基因组中心要招人。在美国，90年代初那会儿，美国政府打算组建几个基因组中心进行人类基因组测序，其中一个就建在了达拉斯。他们需要物理专业做些数据分析以及自动化相关的工作。另外，我的大姐是搞生物的，她博士读的就是生物。为了搞懂她的工作，我之前也想过读生物。所以，我跟他们打电话报了名，参加了面试，然后就通过了。两周之后开始工作。

so it’s your older sister that introduced you into the biology.

看上去是你的大姐把你领进生物的。

Yeah, before I actually went to the job, I have read a great book, you can buy it in western, A Cartoon Guide to Genetics, and everything is pictured.  Through these silly pictures, and from reading that book, I just have a basic understanding which is enough for me to begin understand biology. I never have taken a course in biology all my life. So I have no official qualification in biology because my qualification in physics.

对，在我真正参加工作之前，我读了一本很受用的书，你可以从国外购买到，书名是A Cartoon Guide to Genetics，所有的信息都用图画表示出来。通过阅读这些有点儿傻里傻气的图画，我对生物学有了基本的了解，能够开始理解生物学了。我这辈子从来没有上过正式的生物学课程。可以说，我并没有搞生物的“资格证”，因为我本行是搞物理的。

In your view, does your physics background benefit your biology research in some aspects?

在你看来，你的物理学背景在某些方面帮助了你的生物学研究了吗？

Yeah, I think that’s true. The differences between the life sciences is much less than the overlap between them, before there was biology, chemistry, physics， but now changing technology have changed the way we define sciences, so now there is so much physics in biology, for example, the type of data, the bioinformatics is so important, so I think it is time for biologist to study physics . I think more and more undergraduates have this option. I don’t think it is easy to go from physics to biology, because people always say you have mathematical background it’s easy for you; maybe it’s true, but there is so much information in biology, there is pathways, genes, etc. you have to do so much reading. People say, oh, you do physics, you must be very clever because you have to do mathematics. I find it amazing how much information biologists can remember. You can tell them the genes, and they know what these genes are, the functions, the pathways, something about the mutations, I just don’t know how people remember these information. I think it is different way your brain work.

I also think it is important to have interactions between biologist and physicists and chemists, because everybody has their expertise, and from talking with each other, I think that’s where people get their new idea. One of the greatest things of the university of East Anglia is everyday 10:30 tea break, half an hour people sitting in the same place, just talking, talking anything, but usually you talking about physics, and maybe someone has a problem, and here another one said, hey, have you tried this? Yeah, that’s great, I never thought about that. And that’s an important part of research, interaction.

对，我想是这样的。在生命科学内部不同学科之间的相同之处还是多过不同。技术变化的方式也改变了我们对科学的定义，所以现在生物学里面有很多的物理的内容。比如，数据的类型，生物信息学也很重要，所以我认为生物学者也要学些物理了。我认为越来越多的本科生都有这样的选择。从物理转到生物，我觉得并不容易，人们常说，哦，你有数学背景，这对你来说不难；也许有些道理吧，但是生物里面有太多的信息了，比如代谢通路，比如基因，等等。你需要做大量的阅读。人们又说，哦，你是搞物理的，你肯定很聪明吧，因为你要会搞数学。我总是很惊讶于生物学者能记住那么多信息。我想我们的大脑工作方式不一样。

我还想，搞生物的跟搞物理的、搞化学的多多交流很重要，因为每个人都有自己的特长，相互间的讨论有助于大家产生新的想法。我读博士的学校有一方面做的很好，那就是每天10：30的茶歇时间，在那半个钟头里，大家聚到一起，不干别的，就是聊天。什么都可以聊，但是往往聊的都是物理，张三碰到了一个问题，李四说，嘿，你试过这个方法了吗？对啊，太好了，我怎么没想过呢。你看，交流可是科研当中很重要的一环呢。

我不想再旅游了，于是又回来做研究了

Did you participate the human genome project as soon as you arrived at the US?

你是一到美国就参与了人类基因组计划吗？

So I first went to America, I have already living in America for several years before I switched to studying biology. I was still a student when I went to America, because my boss in the UK, he moved to the university of Texas, so he took the whole laboratory, only the equipment and me to the America.  So I have to take the laboratory apart when I was a PhD student, ship it all the way to America and took the whole thing back together them. So it took me 18 months to reassemble his lab and only then I started my research.

我是先到的美国，到那儿生活了几年之后才转向生物的。刚去美国那会，我还是个学生，因为我在英国的老板要跳槽到德克萨斯州大学，他就得把他的全部实验室（其实只有仪器和我）搬到美国。所以呢，当我还读博士那会儿，就要把实验室拆了，全部海运到美国，然后再全部组装好。我花了18个月才重新弄好他的实验室；直到那会，我才开始自己的实验。

So after I graduated (actually I graduated from an English University, although I did all my research in America), and I went back to America and had a position at the University of Texas, I should know I was a teaching professor, I was teaching physics at the University of Texas.

虽然我博士全部研究工作都是在美国做的，但我实际上毕业于一所英国的大学。毕业之后，我又回到美国，在德克萨斯州大学谋得一个位子，哦，我想起来了，我当时是教学教授，我那会在德克萨斯州大学教物理。

Again, from your CV, we find you have once participated into a company,  Bio-automation company, right? Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

此外，从你的简历，我们还发现你曾参与了一个公司，bioautomation公司，对吗？可以谈谈这个经历吗？

So when I worked on human genome, I worked both on bioinformatics and robotics; because with human genome project, they were trying to, you have to automate, sequence in an automatic way. Because the protest is identical to make, you take your samples, then you make your library; from the libraries, you do your sequencing; from your sequencing, you assemble your sequence .

( walking? )

Primer walking? yeah, so for the primers walking, primers were rather expensive; so we decided to make our DNA synthesizer; so we could synthesize our own DNA primer; then we found that if we could make very cheap oligos, then other people wanted us to build DNA for them, so we realized that there was a big market for that. So we cited a company,  we sell them in China as well. It is a huge successful company.   ( Europe, Korea)

So I got many many chances to travel around, every week I will be travelling some place around the world. After three years of travelling every week, I don’t want to travel anymore and go back to research.

当我在人类基因组计划做事那会，我同时在做生物信息学和自动化。在人类基因组计划当中，他们在尝试、也必须去自动化，用自动的方式测序。因为所有的事前准备都是一样的，提取样品，然后建库，建好库之后，进行测序；得到序列之后再进行序列拼接。

（步移吗？）

引物步移？对，在引物步移当中，引物是很贵，所以我们打算自己制造DNA合成仪，这样我们就可以合成自己的DNA引物了。然后我们发现如果我们可以合成很廉价的寡核苷酸，然后其他人也想让我们帮他么合成DNA，这是我们意识到这儿有个巨大的市场。所以我们就注册了一个公司，我们在中国也有市场。那个公司相当成功。（还有欧洲、韩国）

对，所以我当时有很多很多机会旅游，每周我都会去世界上的不同地方。这样过了三年，我不想再旅游了，于是又回来做研究了。

我就是想来中国，而且是做科研

How did you happen to come to China?

你是怎么来到中国的呢？

I have been dreamed of coming to China for a long long time. When I was in school, high school, we studied Chinese history, and I just wanted to come to China when I was fourteen or fifteen. But I didn’t to come to China just being an English teacher, I want to do science. In the ’90s I tried to come to China, but I couldn’t. It’s very difficult to come to China back then, to do science. And then I found a position in 2003 in Xi’an. Then, they had the SARS, so it get impossible to get the job. So I waited and started looking again at 2004, and it took six months to find a job in China. If you want to do science in Chinese university, it’s quite difficult for foreigner to find the right person to speak to. Once you find somebody, it’s OK, but making that first step is very very difficult. There are many many Chinese who go abroad in a well-defined process, but if you coming the other way, it’s more than usual.

我很早就梦想着来中国了。当我还在读书的时候，在高中那会儿，当我上历史课的时候，我就很想来中国了。那时候我大约十四五岁吧。但是我不想来中国只做一个英语教师，我想来做科研。在九十年代我也试过来中国，但是没有如愿。那时候来中国挺难的，尤其是对想做科研的人。在2003年，我在西安找到了一个位子，但后来发生了SARS，工作也就泡汤了。我等到2004重新开始找工作，花了6个月找到一个地方（傅贺按：即北京农业大学）。如果你打算在中国的大学做科研，老外会发现自己不知道该找谁说去。如果你可以找对人，那还算好，但是踏出这第一步非常非常困难。中国人出国的门路比较清楚了，而且很多人都走过，但是如果你反其道而行之，那就不太寻常了。

How did you come to WIV? I know, this must have been asked many many times before.

你是怎么来病毒所的？我知道，你之前肯定被问过N次了。

I was in a conference in Beijing, and I was just lining up to get some food. A Chinese guy in front of me turned around, and said: oh, you are tall. and I started to talk to him. I was trying to looking for somewhere else, because I didn’t really like being in Beijing, because Beijing is very westerned. so, it’s like being in a western city, while I’m looking for something more Chinese; so I decided to move somewhere else and he told me about this institute and put me to contact Huzhihong, she had been in Beijing so she can meet me there.

我当时在北京参加一个会议，在我排队打饭那会，前面一个哥们转过头来，说：哇，你很高啊。然后我们就聊上了，他跟我讲了很多。我当时正想换个地方，因为我当时有点不喜欢 呆在北京了，因为北京太西方化了。感觉跟西方城市差不多，而我想找一个更“中国化”的。所以我打算换个地方，他就跟我提了这个研究所，而且安排我联系胡志红，当时她也在北京，所以我们就在那儿见面了。

It seems that you move from Beijing to Wuhan mainly for cultural reasons; plus you have mention your strong interest of Chinese; I was wondering just what exactly it is that interest you so much.

看上去，你从北京来到武汉主要是文化方面的原因，再加上你先前提到过你对中国的强烈的兴趣。我们很想知道，究竟是什么东西那么吸引你呢？

Just it is different, it is so completely different to the western culture. The languages are different, the writings are different, even the hierarchy I just talked about that is strong in the families ,in business and in research. There is also an interesting thing to switch from the communism, and all the upheavals the country have gone though the cultural revolution, it’s just so different to the experience living in the England. England, everyday is just the same

就是差异吧，跟西方文化巨大的差异。语言不同，文字不同，甚至包括我提到的在家庭、商界和科研当中的等级制度。从共产主义转型的过程中有如此多有趣的事情，包括这个国家曾经经历的文革动乱。在这儿生活跟在英国的经历完全不同。在英国，每天的生活几乎没有变化。

It seems that the difference could make you happy.

似乎你对差异很感兴趣。

yes, I think this specially keeps you alert.

对，我想这格外让人清醒。

But maybe not only Beijing, all china, including Wuhan, is in the process of westernization, how do you feel about this?

但是不止北京，整个中国，包括武汉，都在经历着西方化的过程，你对此什么感觉？

I am glad I came Wuhan before it changes so much, I wish I was able to come here earlier, to see how it used to be.

Before I came to china to work, I have been many times on business with my company, so the first Asian country I went to is Thailand, and then I went to Taiwan, and then I went to Vietnam, and I remembered being in Taiwan as well. I thought it was great. I was in a street corner, waiting for someone to meet me at night, I couldn’t believe I was finally in Asia,  because you’ve probably  seen the TV show, you’ve read about it, but right being there is different. It’s difficult to explain that feeling. It’s like a story, the story came alive into life.

我很庆幸自己在武汉变化太大之前就来了，我倒希望自己早点来这儿呢，看看这里曾经是什么样子。

在我来中国工作之前，因为公司的业务，我曾有很多出差的机会，我到的第一个亚洲国家是泰国，然后还去过台湾、越南。去台湾那次我至今还记得，感觉很棒。我站在一个街角，等着晚上见面的人。我当时难以相信自己终于来到亚洲了。因为，虽然之前从电视节目上看过，也从书本里读过，但是当我真的来到这儿还是不一样，那种感觉真的难以言表。就像一个梦想竟然变成了现实。

Working in virology is the first time I found something I really really enjoyed working on. I have worked in many many areas, in physics, even in biology, I have worked in the HGP, then I switched to a different department doing immunology, and then I started to work in industry. And in Beijing, I started to work on agricultural bioinformatics, but until I worked here, I found something I really enjoyed. I think this is a good consequences of the leaders, they have philosophy, they have great philosophy, the really nice environment to work as well.

进入病毒学领域，我才第一次找到了自己真真正正喜欢做的事情。我曾经做很多很多领域做过，我搞过物理，然后是生物，我在人类基因组计划干过，还涉足过免疫，然后我在工业界干过。在北京，我开始做农大做生物信息学。但是直到来到这儿，我才发现了自己真正喜欢的东西。我想这跟这儿的领导者有关系，他们有理念，我觉得他们的理念很好，这儿的工作环境也很优美。

They don’t have this strong hierarchy you see in the universities. This is the boss, this is the No.2, this is the No.3. We all united together, we work toward this common goal: virology. I think this is a good attitude.

他们没有那种大学里的强烈的等级制度。老大、老二、老三，分得很清楚。这儿不一样，我们很团结，而且为了一个共同的目标努力，那就是病毒学。我觉得这种态度蛮好。

You got the impression of hierarchy from Beijing?

你对等级观念的印象来自北京吗？

Yeah, it’s a political city. (laugh)

对，你知道，那是一个政治城市。（ ）

What’s your professional objectives right now? I mean, many PIs want to publish their results on certain journals, do you have some objectives alike?

你现阶段的专业目标是什么，我是说，很多研究员都希望自己的工作能发到怎样怎样的杂志上，你有类似的目标吗？

Oh, of course I have.  I have just finished two paper to submitted to different journals. And I have other work in progress which will soon be finished and published. Em, when I tried to apply, because as a foreigner, one of the problems I face is there is very few Chinese grant that I can apply for, you have to be a Chinese citizens to apply for the grants.

(Oh, really?)

yeah. They have relaxed it into you have to be born in china, no longer whether you are citizen, but I still can’t apply for those. (So?)

哦，当然了。我刚刚完成了两篇文章，准备投到不同的期刊去。还有另一项工作正在进行，不过很快也会完成并发表。呃，当我试图申请经费的时候，需要面对的一个问题是：因为我是一个老外嘛，在中国只有极少的课题可以申请。因为中国公民才能申请。

（啊，真的吗？）

对。当然，他们也放松了规定：你必须出生在中国，不管你是否中国国籍。尽管这样我仍然不能申请。（那么你是怎么办的呢？）

So, I tried to get one of my funding from the West, because I can write it well in English. It’s a lot easier.

那么呢，我就尝试从西方申请部分经费喽，因为我可以用英文写嘛，这不难。

So you are doing research in China using money from the West?

那么，你是用西方的钱在中国做科研？

Yeah, that’s my goal. (laugh)

对，这正是我的目标。（ ）

啊？他就是Watson！

Do you have unforgettable experiences at your college life? maybe it can give us some guideline) Or like some inspiration?

关于您的大学生活，有没有什么特难忘的经历？给我们讲讲，或许能给我们些启发或者鼓舞？

It’s a long long ago. I will think. One of the interesting thing that happen to me, not when I was a student, but when I was working at bioautomation, I was visiting cold spring harbor, you know, in long island and where they discovered the structure of DNA, so I was setting this DNA synthesizer and walking away. And some guy comes up to me, you know, asking what are you doing? I said I am selling DNA synthesizer. Woo, how does it work? And I am talking to this guy, and he is very friendly and talking to me. and then, after about fifteen minutes later, he said, I must stop talking to you. Oh, Bye-bye. And someone else asked me: you know who that was? I said, no. That was Crick! () He was really a nice guy, but I never know who he was. Hey, who is the one master the cold spring harbor, Watson or crick? Crick lives in California, I think that must be Watson. ’cause the one is teaching at California, the other one is heading cold spring harbor. So, whoever is heading cold spring harbor are the one I met. But it’s nice to meet somebody really famous.

哦，那是很久很久之前喽。让我想想。我曾有一个挺有趣的经历，但不是我读书那会，那是我在bioautomation公司工作的时候。有一天我去了趟冷泉港，你知道，在长岛，DNA结构就是在那儿发现的（傅贺按：Simon确实记性不大好，DNA结构其实是在剑桥发现的）。我在哪儿谈妥了DNA合成仪正要回去呢，这时有个哥们走过来问我，嘿，你是干嘛的？我说我是来卖DNA合成仪的。哇，那它是怎么工作的？然后就跟这个哥们聊上了，他蛮友好。我们聊得也挺开心。过了一会，大概15分钟吧，他说，我现在不能和你聊了。好，再见。再见。（他走之后）另一个人问我：你知道他是谁吗？我说：不知道啊。那是克里克！他人真的蛮好，但是我之前从不知道他是谁。对了，那个冷全港的头头是哪个？沃森还是克里克？克里克住在加州，我想那应该是沃森。因为他们一个在加州教书，另一个在冷全港当头头。所以，我碰到的就是就是那个冷全港的头头。不管怎么着，碰到这些大牛们还是很开心的事情。

You are glad to talk with people from different fields.

你很喜欢跟不同领域的人聊天呢。

For me, I think I was quite fortunate that my PhD adviser was a world-famous physicist, and he had such a great understanding of his field, we could sit down and talked about a simple idea in physics, I mean, just talk about it for two hours and what it means. I think I was really  fortunate to have the experience like that, who had such insight, understanding of his field, and had such passion for it. And if you are in that situation, I think it is great experience too. I found that very inspiring, being in that situation.

对我而言，我觉得我很幸运的一点在于，我的博士导师是一个世界知名的物理学家，他对他的领域理解非常之深刻，我们可以坐下来聊一个物理学中简单的想法，我是说，就是那么聊两个小时，聊它是什么意思。我想，能有这样的经历，真的很幸运。他对该领域的理解、洞察力、以及激情。如果你也在那个环境当中，我想你也会觉得很兴奋。那种环境的确很鼓舞人。

科研机构越来越像了

As far as you know, what’s the major difference between the institute in the UK, US and China?

就你的经历而言，英国、美国、中国的科研机构主要有哪些不同？

(thinking) I try to think. I think they are becoming more similar in terms of pressure to get publish, to get funding, and I think it’s a shame because people focus more on research that will get publication and funding rather-there is less time to do pure research. One thing I didn’t like in research in west is we spend much time in meeting. We are always in meeting, keeping people giving PowerPoint presentations and so on. But maybe it’s becoming more like here, and I suppose in many ways they are similar: they have the same goals, they are doing their research, they want to publish, to get funding. I think with funding that goes to research in China, I think there is very little difference now. If you can get funding, you can do very expensive experiment, if you need expensive equipment, your funding will be spared to do that.

In the US, they seems to spend a lot of time in meetings. One  nice thing about Chinese is that they have long lunch break, In the west, many people eat at desk and go straight back to work. But I’m not sure there are any more efficient.

Maybe the research atmosphere is pretty similar, I think, again, because of the leadership, that most PIs here have studied abroad, and they kind of have brought back ,so I think they are trying to encourage that. Maybe the atmosphere is different than Beijing. Beijing has more traditional Chinese culture blah blah.

呃（思考中），让我想想。我想它们在很多方面越来越像了，比如要发文章，要申课题；我觉得这让人很遗憾的，因为大家做研究都盯着容易发文章或者拿经费的去了，而没有时间去做真正的科研。我对西方科研挺不满的一点在于，我们花了很多时间参加会议。我们参加一个又一个的会议，不停的做PPT讲演，等等。好像中国这儿也正在变成那样。我想在很多方面他们是很接近的：他们有一样的目标，做研究、发文章、拿经费。我想随着经费进入中国的科研界，现在的差别微乎其微。当然，如果你能拿到经费，你可以做一些昂贵的实验，如果你想买昂贵的仪器，你的经费也会允许你这么做。

在美国，他们要花大量的时间开会。在中国很好的一点是这儿有很长的午休时间，在西方，人们通常就在办公桌旁随便吃点，然后直接回去工作。但我很怀疑他们的效率有多高。

或许研究氛围也很接近。我想，这还是跟领导者者有关系。因为大多数的研究员都曾在国外留学过，他们带来了一些东西，我想他们也在有意的鼓励这种氛围。也许北京的氛围有些不同。北京有更多传统中国文化的东西。

自行车、偷窃以及所谓的民族性问题

What would you like to do to enjoy your life?

平时你喜欢做什么来放松自己？

Er, I like to ride my bicycle, I often ride it in the morning ‘abuse I usually get up early in the summer and ride around Donghu and Moshan, for it gets too hot, therefore I do that once a week. It’s nice early in morning because there is no car around. If you get up early, you can ride to Moshan, because they are not allow bicycles, but there is a back gate, if you get through the back gate, nobody there, you ride up and down the hill, and come out back again before the guard showed up. It’s very relaxing.

呃，我喜欢骑自行车。我通常早上骑它，因为夏天我经常起的很早，然后骑车绕东湖、磨山，因为现在天越来越热了，我差不多一周骑一次吧。早上骑车的好处在于周围没有汽车。如果你起的足够早，你可以骑上磨山，通常他们是不让自行车上去的，但是那儿有个后门，你可以趁没人的时候溜进去，骑上山顶，骑下来，在门卫出现之前再溜出来。非常惬意。

As regard to bicycle, I have bought a bicycle before, but it was stolen. I was wondering do you have any shared experience?

说到自行车，我之前也买过一辆，但后来被偷了。我不知道你有没有类似的经历？

I had an bicycle stolen in Beijing, but it was far too small for me. So, I didn’t really mind, that was a tiny bicycle. But now, my bicycle is the biggest bicycle I found in Wuhan, and it’s easier to ride. But I went back to UK, and I forgot to lock it up, and I supposed  that there was no bicycle when I came back. It was still there, I was very surprised because I thought if you leave your bicycle unlocked in China, then it will be stolen.

I did have a bicycle stolen at Huagong. It was Feige, nice one.

我在北京也被偷过一辆，但是那辆车子对我来说太小了。所以，我也没有很在意，那是辆迷你自行车。但我现在的自行车，是我在武汉找到的最大的一辆，骑起来很合适。当我回英国的时候，我忘记上锁了，我估摸着等我回来估计肯定不见了。回来之后发现，居然还在，太意外了，因为我之前以为在中国如果不锁车子肯定是要丢的。

哦，对了，我的确丢过一辆，在华工。飞鸽牌的，质量很好。

But in the UK when I was student, in salford, I have five bicycle stolen. Bicycle here is like the bicycle center in the UK, you have to keep the bicycle in the house, otherwise the people will steal it. But one day, this is an expensive bicycle, somebody planed to intrude into the house, so the bicycle is stolen in the house. (laugh) There is actually probably many similarities you don’t realize between the West and China, people are always stealing things wherever you go.

但是在英国，当我在Salford念书的时候，我丢了5辆自行车。那儿是英国的自行车偷窃中心，你必须得把车子放在屋子里才行，否则肯定被偷。有一词，有个家伙竟策划闯入民宅偷车子，因为那车子是在太贵了，结果车子就在家里丢了。（笑）你看，在西方和中国之间，还有很多你没有意识到的相似之处，不管你到哪儿，总有人喜欢偷东西。

yeah, I have pondered this questions for some time, is there more similarities or differences between people from difference nations?

嗯，有个问题我想了很久，就是，不同国家的人之间究竟是同大于异，还是异大于同？

I think there is, everybody has the same interest, like, families are important. And maybe they want to have a comfortable life, they want to have a good job. So, maybe everybody really have the sort of same goals. And people may talk about, Oh, like ,the English hate the French, the French hate the English, the Chinese don’t like the Japanese. But really if you fall on the personal, you find Chinese people you like, you find some Chinese people you don’t like.

我想，每个人都有相同的兴趣吧，比如，家庭很重要。还有，都渴望舒适的生活，都想找份好工作。所以，看上去人们的目标差不多。人们也会常常谈论，比如，哦，英国人恨法国人，法国人恨英国人，中国人不喜欢日本人。但是如果你就面对单个的个人，你会发现中国人里有你喜欢的，同样也有你不喜欢的。

I used to live in a place close from Paris, by France, and I think French people are great, but many many English people don’t like French people.

我也曾经在离巴黎不远的地方生活过，我觉得法国人很不错啊，但是很多很多英国人都不喜欢法国人。

There was a war between England and France.

英国跟法国曾打过仗。

Yeah, it was a long time ago. Then there was war between England and Germany, well, England went to war with everyone, England to war with China, that’s how we got Hong Kong,

对，很久很久以前了。然后英国和德国还打过，嗨，英国当时和谁都打，也和中国打过，要不然也不会占领香港。

And Yuanmingyuan

还有圆明园。（ :evil:）

Yeah, Yuanmingyuan. That’s the only time the English and the French worked together, that they destroyed Yuanmingyuan, I was surprised, I never realized English and French worked together on anything, it was only on something destructive. （laugh）

对啊，圆明园。那是英国法国唯一一次合伙，他们联手破坏了圆明园。我很意外，之前从没有想到英国法国在什么事情上合作过，唯一一次还是干坏事。

Er, do you think there is some truth in the so-called “national characteristics”?

呃，那你认为所谓的“民族性格”有多少道理呢？

I don’t think so really. A lot of people have a stereotype, but I don’t think it’s true really. I think everyone has the same basic need, the same basic interest. Just like, parents want the best for their kids, their kids look after their parents, they are the most basic human trait, every culture is the same.

我认为不是那样。很多人有那种成见，但是我觉得那并不符合实情。我想每个人都有一样的基本需要、基本兴趣。好比父母想为儿女考虑，儿女照顾父母，这都是最基本的人性特点，每种文化都是一样的。

Then, how about the cultural difference?  just as you have mentioned, Chinese culture is different, in what ways?

那么，文化的差异又是怎么回事呢？如你所说的，中国文化的不同又体现在哪儿呢？

Well, certainly there is. For example the family. I think, er, there is more change, er, there is no same close family ties that exist in china. There is so many chinese people that in America, they have the kids and the mother and the father go to America to look after the kid, the grandparents look after the children. That’s very unuaual in the West. There is no such strong family bond any more I don’t think. And there is the respect for the old people. And I think maybe there is not as strong in the west as is here. And there is great respect for the teacher, Laoshi, It’s more formal I was on my first name basis on my PhD student. I got the professor, that’s the first and last time to call me professor, my first name. I took by hierarchy, in most places there is still very rich in china, and there is benefits and drawbacks.

恩，当然也有差异。以家庭为例，我觉得，西方的家庭关系没有中国的那么亲密。现在有很多中国人到了美国，他们生了孩子，这是他们的爸爸妈妈，也就是孩子的爷爷奶奶会飞到美国去看孩子。这在西方是很少见的。我想西方没有这么强的家庭关系了。再比如对老年人的尊重啊，我觉得西方也没有中国这么强。另外还有对老师的尊重，这儿第一次有人称呼我Rayner教授，我把它当成等级观念接收了下来。是的，等级观念在中国仍然很浓厚，当然，它也是有利有弊。

When could you feel strongly about the cultural differences? Say, at what points, you realized, Aha, this is the differences?

你在什么时候最能感受到这种文化的差异？好比，在某个时刻，你忽然意识到，啊哈，这就是差别所在。

Everyday. (laugh)  I think the longer you stay, the more you become aware  of the differences. And, like an foreigner, you are always outside of it, you are never be part of it. You are always an observer, but, that’ OK, I understand, er, how to put it, I mean, you grow up in china, you spend you most time in China, and everything, the way you think, the way you act is all according to your experiences. My experience is very different, and, er, as I can understand the language, I can sense there is differences between the cultures, even now I don’t always understand, I understand the differences exist, so I have some Chinese friends, I can tell their Chinese friends, they don’t very really want me there.

每天都有啊。（笑）我想我呆的时间越久，就越能意识到差别所在。比如，作为一个老外，你永远是个局外人，你没办法融入其中。你永远是个旁观者，但是，没关系，我理解，呃，怎么说呢，我的意思是，你在中国长大，你人生的大部分时间都在中国，所有的事情，你的思考方式，你的行为方式都跟你的经历吻合。我的经历就不同了，而且，呃，随着我逐渐理解汉语，我能感到文化间的差异，即使我还不能总是理解这些差异，但我知道它们确实存在，比如，我有一些中国朋友，我能感到，他们的另一些中国朋友并不希望我在场。

I can tell that. They are old people, I am personally ok, that’s so interesting. Maybe because they are older, they are uncomfortable with foreigner around. Younger generations are more accommodating. But the older people, they have the interesting stories. For older people, their accent are so thick. Their Putonghua are not standard. So I have really a hard time understanding them, but they are just happy to talk.

我能感到这点。他们是些长者，我自己觉得没啥，这很有趣。也许因为他们年纪大了，对老外在身边还不太习惯。年轻一代们就更适应。但是年长者们会有有趣的故事。当然，他们的口音也会很重，他们的普通话不太标准。所以有时候理解他们挺费劲的，但是他们自己谈得又很高兴。

Since most older people can’t speak English, how can you understand them?

既然大多数年长者都不会讲英语，你是怎么理解他们的呢？

Qing zai shuo yi bian, qing zai shuo yi bian. And then, little by little, I can understand some.

请再说一遍，请再说一遍。就这样一点一点的，我能理解一些。

采访人：傅贺、蒋玲芝

文稿整理、统筹：傅贺

附：Simon的简历（来自：这里）

Simon Rayner，男， 1963年出生，博士，研究员，1985年获英国Salford University 物理学学士学位，1991年获英国University of East Anglia固态物理学博士学位，1993年赴美，曾先后在德州大学西南医学中心担任高级研究科学家、助理教授，参与过人类基因组计划。1999年在Corning Photonics工作，2000年-2004年与他人共同创建了BioAutomation生物技术公司，2005年至2006年在中国农业大学任生物信息学教授，2006年至今任生物信息学学科组组长，承担多项创新工程项目。研究经历丰富，研究领域横跨物理、生物、计算机的科研及工业领域。目前的研究兴趣在于开发大规模数据分析方法，特别是通过代谢途径的分析进行比较基因组学的研究，以及亚洲HIV-I序列的突变分析等。

Ps: An analogy between this interview and molecular biology

Mp3 record-(transcribe)-English draft-(translate, splice)-Chinese draft-(splicing, editing, modification)-this essay

DNA-(transcribe)-mRNA-(splice, translate)-peptide-(folding, phosphoratation, methylation, etc)-Protein

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